CLIENTSPEAK: John Buckley of PPMS

Society 54 gives you direct access to what In-House Counsel and other purchasers of legal services want from their lawyers and law firms.

The Q&A below taken from a recent interview we conducted with John Buckley, General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer at PPMS.

What factors influence whether you hire outside counsel?

There are a surprising number of factors to balance in making the decision of whether or not to engage outside counsel in a particular matter.  As a solo GC I have to assess the scale of the matter compared to the bandwidth I have available to address it.  I also have to consider my personal expertise and experience regarding this type matter – it’s not always apparent at the outset where a matter can lead.  Experience can help guide that assessment, and sometimes early involvement of outside counsel with experience I don’t have can save a lot of “catch up” cost down the road if I get out of my depth.  The risk exposure can drive engagement of outside counsel.  Large risks warrant a team approach to drive better decision-making, and small risks may be not just cheaper and faster to manage alone, but can actually produce better results when not managed by committee.  And then there is cost.  Sometimes, despite everything else, a business just can’t afford the better result that everyone might acknowledge is more likely with outside counsel involved.

What are some things that outside counsel have done that have made a positive impression and/or impact?

For me, the outside counsel who has made the most positive impression on me, has done so by not only practicing law at a very high level, but by understanding the business and the political relationships within organizations.  That way legal advice I receive is tempered or augmented with insight into how to implement the advice.  Even if it just affirms my own thinking, that affirmation gives me more confidence to press for a particular outcome.

Do in-house counsel care if your outside counsel is a super/best/elite lawyer?

I tend to think of those type awards as more related to marketing or advertising spend by the firm, but not really an independent assessment of legal performance.  I think a big part of an in-house counsel role is to see beyond the hype and choose outside counsel that “fits” the client company.  I’ve been first in-house counsel for a number of smaller start-up organizations over the years.  The truth is, a small company is a small company, and a big law firm has their attention on big clients.  Not to mention that most large law firms are more expensive, even if they offer some kind of small business discount.  Small companies are generally better off aligning with not so large firms.  The countervailing argument is that often start-ups have sophisticated and specialized demands that small firms have difficulty answering.  What’s an in-house lawyer to do?  I look for a moderately sized law firm, and I look for a senior associate on a partner track, (or maybe a recent junior partner).  I network with them and if I’m comfortable, I engage them.  Senior associates know the law, usually as well if not better than, the senior partners.  They have some wisdom of experience, and they are cheaper, and they often want to show they can develop clients as partnership opportunities loom.  So, and this is key for a small business, you will get the priority attention you want when you need it.

What law firm trends are you seeing that you would like to either end or continue?

One trend I’m seeing in response to government regulation and non-compliance enforcement has been the emergence of compliance focused firms, sometimes law firms, but sometimes as consulting firms with lawyers as members or employees.  I think this is a trend that should continue, but I also think that some clarity needs to evolve between the role of compliance consulting and compliance counseling.

What advice would you give to a junior associate at a law firm?

If you’re thinking you want to go in-house, I would encourage you to get at least 2 years of law firm experience first. Selecting and engaging firms is one of the most important things in-house counsel can contribute, but managing those firms after they are engaged is where the rubber meets the road.  You really need to understand the business model of a law firm to effectively get what your client needs out of that firm.  You get that understanding by working there.  It’s not just about learning the law – it’s about learning how law firms function and how they dysfunction.

Is there one resource you use over another when soliciting referrals from colleagues for outside counsel?

The Association of Corporate Counsel has repeatedly been the best resource for me.  I’ve been active in the local Charlotte chapter for many years, and I’m currently on the board, and it’s really unparalleled in terms of getting accurate information from knowledgeable sources. I’ve also used it to identify local counsel for particular matters through online list-servers.

What are the biggest mistakes outside counsel can make? (What should law firms avoid?)

To be honest, it’s generally not legal.  The biggest mistake I see law firms make is losing sight of their business.  Splintering off of lawyer groups weakens not just the capacity of the firm, but also confidence in the firm.  Although not usually the case, it can be interpreted as a sign of impending implosion.  Groups of lawyers tend to leave firms for financial reasons combined with some sense of unfairness.  Both of those issues arise because the firm wasn’t managing the business part of the firm well enough.  Sometimes as in-house counsel you can follow particular lawyers, but often it causes a re-assessment of the entire portfolio of legal relationships in the company.